Sazda Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) Phase 1 - have ranged DPS and healers stack near the outside of the inner ring to make healing easier as well as resetting the debuff when needed - you can easily stay inside the bubble until you have 10+ stacks. There is no need to go outside very often. - HOW TO RESET THE DEBUFF FOR RANGED AND HEALERS: -) before the fight starts, go into the inner ring and back up. There will be a point where jumping (and thus getting out of the bubble) will reset your stacks. That is where you want to be in the beginning of the fight. - being on the inner ring gives you 50% increased healing received AND 50% damage done buff - it is very beneficial to be in that ring - for ranged: when we call for ranged to switch to the big add (Celestial Protector), try to stay on the inner ring as long as possible. Before he does his huge arcane damage that will kill you if you have too many stacks, he will cast Total Annihilation (4 second cast). Just reset your stacks during that cast and you will be fine. - for tanks: switch boss more often (off take take big add) to reduce big damage spikes and make healing more predictable - rins and repeat Phase 2 This is all about killing the 6 Energy Charges that are slowly moving to the outside of the inner ring. Our goal is to kill at least 3 waves (5 would be great) like this (and DPS boss in between). If it turns out that we do not have enough DPS to kill a certain wave, we should not DPS it at all and do all the DPS to Elegon instead. - spread out on your assigned side, know where the other DPS are and hit the target that your melee group members are not close to - while doing that, make sure you are in the inner ring for the 50% DPS buff - as soon as an add hits its target, GET OUT OF THE INNER RING - the floor will disappear shortly Phase 3 - misdirect adds to your tank - have groups go around the room in a way that they end up at the same spot for better add AOE Rest we will have to see once we get some more practice on it... in terms of how to move in what direction etc. TBD... Edited October 24, 2012 by Sazda
Rebelogic Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 In our 10M, the tanks developed a great strategy of switching between the boss between each add phase. This made it so the tank stacks reset more often and they weren't getting trucked. Also, this made sure that our better geared tank (Hauclir in our case) stayed on the boss more often and our other tank always ended up getting the add making it easier to predict damage etc. For the 6 "walls" we had our raid spread into 2 groups on opposite sides of the room and DPS opposing walls to get em down faster. We did it in such a way that both groups ended the phase in the same spot so adds could be AOE'd by everyone before going back to the boss. Good work Sazda, I think we should have more of these "What we learned on our first time on a boss" posts.
Berms Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 P1 - Ranged and healers - Before the fight starts, step in. Back up slowly until you find the point at which jumping will clear your stacks. (Less movement required once you get used to this.) P2 - Try to push for as many stacks as possible. You should be able to do one more wave than you will be able to later on. Ie: If your goal is 5 waves, use your potion on the 4th wave and personal dps cooldowns on the 5th. (Clear stacks each time after clearing waves.) Allow the 6th wave to go through. Later on, you'll just be able to do 4. Do P1-P3 twice (I think it's twice) and your final time stepping in will be to rush the boss, aoe the adds and stack as tightly as possible for aoe healing.
Sazda Posted October 22, 2012 Author Posted October 22, 2012 i added your thoughts/points to the first post to keep it all in one spot
Sazda Posted October 24, 2012 Author Posted October 24, 2012 talking about maximizing raid dps.. i added following line taken form icy-veins to the first post: Firstly, melee DPS players can stay in, without resetting their stacks for the first Celestia Protector death (and ensuing Total Annihilation cast). Death Knights can easily survive the Total Annihilation damage, even with as much as 15 stacks of Overcharged, by using Anti-Magic Shell. Other melee classes can use similar damage reduction abilities to survive.
Lyntha Posted October 24, 2012 Posted October 24, 2012 That's still a bad idea thanks to Arcing Energy and Stability Flux. Arcing Energy is the random high damage to raid members. I'm pretty sure that it will one-shot people above 15 stacks. Stability flux is the tick that the adds cast from 25-0 and although it probably won't kill them outright, it will at the very least get them extremely low. I don't like it. The way I plan on doing the fight is having the melee stick on adds anyways so when the tanks rotate out to drop stacks, melee can do it too with little to no impact to their DPS.
Sazda Posted October 24, 2012 Author Posted October 24, 2012 (edited) I understand. It is the "more secure" strategy, but it definitely costs a nice chunk of dps time on the boss. I would say we go with your idea and see where we stand at the end of the fight. If the enrage timer becomes a problem, we know how we can fix it. Edited October 24, 2012 by Sazda
Sazda Posted October 25, 2012 Author Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) Damage done to Sparks last night over all fights: Justicemaker 12002190 7.1 Ghostsan 11357503 6.7 Seihai 10971839 6.5 Afksforbowls 10871277 6.4 Varibash 10601396 6.2 Mantra 9538836 5.6 Rebelogic 9046281 5.3 Unholyfaith 8588902 5.1 Sonic 8492675 5.0 Ninjagoddess 8114583 4.8 Pikachu 7807737 4.6 Sazda 7077735 4.2 Heldarram 6822691 4.0 Necrogemini 6504991 3.8 Hauclir 6502664 3.8 Talos 5730455 3.4 Lampray 5174659 3.0 Mastric 4142948 2.4 Tourin 3866487 2.3 Wilistari 3706007 2.2 Foofkin 2613023 1.5 Wiggles 2250645 1.4 Mootnk 2142329 1.3 Arixgorod 1313489 0.8 Maurs 1220264 0.7 Quilen 820842 0.5 Offthechain 468432 0.3 Water Elemental 450759 0.3 Iaxeyou 422336 0.2 Mindbender 407280 0.2 Wild Imp 265774 0.2 Beast 200691 0.1 Greater Fire Elemental 100318 0.1 Rune Weapon 85528 0.1 Shadowy Apparition 75937 0.0 Bloodworm 53739 0.0 Chillr 21700 0.0 Shadowy Apparition 20231 0.0 Light's Hammer 12689 0.0 Ghost Iron Dragonling 3722 0.0 Adding hunter pet DPS to the hunters has: Sazda @ 12,808,190 #1 overall DPS Lampray @ 7,425,304 #13 overall DPS - if the Quilen is also Lamprays pet she is at: 8,246,146 #10 overall DPS You guys can see all the adds in the list. Here is also a link to this table so you can see it with colors and look at each individual fight: http://worldoflogs.c...m4/details/109/ You go now and figure out the problems... Edited October 25, 2012 by Sazda
Varibash Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 i'd say we are making improvement, not perfect yet but we are getting there, he should be dead next week. I am not concerned.
Lyntha Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 How did I beat two dps who were in the whole night? I'm a freaking healer. Regardless, good list, thanks. I'm gonna use the list to split people up accordingly. For example, I'll have the following groups: #1 #12 #13 #2 #11 #14 #3 #10 #15 #4 #9 #16 #5 #8 #17 #6 #7 #18 This should help spread out DPS a lot better. Up re-reading the list, did a hunter pet seriously beat 3 of our DPSers? We gotta pick it up, that's not excusable.
Sazda Posted October 25, 2012 Author Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) ...not perfect yet but we are getting there... You also live in rainbow village now? We are nowhere close to something called "perfect". Not even going into the direction of it. Remember the shoutbox before last night? Lots of people were not concerned.. "oh yeah he should be down tonight - i see no problem" And i was being called a downer for reminding myself that i should not put my hopes up too high. Fact is that we did pretty horrible last night. Looking at the overall boss DPS for each fight as well as the DPS on these adds - it is easy to see why. Many people seem to have no idea how to play their class. If an officer doesnt even understand boss mechanics - how do you expect the raiders to do that? If a healer makes more DPS than a DPS player on these adds - something is wrong. Last but not least: If some DPS players do 3-4 times the damage of other DPS players.. something is wrong there as well. Edited October 25, 2012 by Sazda
Sazda Posted October 25, 2012 Author Posted October 25, 2012 I am not talking down to anyone. Simply stating facts that even you should be concerned about. (unless you thought that my rainbow village comment was talking down to you - in that case: grow some thicker skin). If you have nothing valuable to add to a post that is simply trying to help the raid - then how about: "do not post in it"? If all you care about is constantly attacking me and opposing everything I say - then who really is the person in this guild that has a problem?
Varibash Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 You dont even understand what you are doing, which is the worst part. For example, last night when the raid started, you commented saying the timer starts at 8, while you were part right, the forum post you quoted ALSO says it starts whenever we start the raid, last night we started the timer around 730 and you made a fuss. Did you not see the 10 other people, not even officers, jump on you immediately and tell you to just stop?.... "I STRONGLY encourage starting the DKP timer at 7.30pm SHARP. If people join the raid after 7.30pm, they will only get a % of the DKP. With 2 raid nights, we need to make sure people are online on time and ready to raid. We cannot allow anymore that raids start on average one full hour late like last raid tier. Please take this into consideration" YOU said that, that was your own quote.... and yet last night you argued with us when we started the timer @ 730...... saying it should be at 8. You are starting fights for the sake of it it seems.
Lyntha Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 Well bash, his argument was that we weren't sticking to the written rules, which is a valid complaint. Regarding Sazda: The 25-man raid is a more casual affair than our 10-man raid. Last night was focused on learning the mechanics as a whole and getting repeatable results while allowing the raid to get used to the mechanics. That list is very valuable but doesn't take into consideration the many variables that would affect charge DPS. If you, Justice and Ghost were all on the same spark, your collective DPS would be way less because the add would die way faster. Another factor is how quickly people learn and adapt to the transition change. Not to mention just plain getting used to the fight, getting used to CD timers, etc. It's very clear that if you got beat by a healer you need to work at it, or if you were at the bottom, you need to work at it, but you can't cut everything up into a black and white decision of "Player A is good, Player B is bad". Some people just plain take longer to get used to the fights. Also, in Gump's example, he was having severe mana issues at first because his rune of power wasn't working due to a bug in how it interacts with the middle platform. There's so many factors that need to be worked out in a fight this complex. There's no sense fretting over people's individual DPS when we need to fix the entire raid's coordination first. How many charges got to the pillars means precisely DICK when we're not making through the second phase 1. Your feedback is valuable, but what the heck was bugging you so badly last night?
Sazda Posted October 25, 2012 Author Posted October 25, 2012 You dont even understand what you are doing, which is the worst part. Likewise For example, last night when the raid started, you commented saying the timer starts at 8, while you were part right, the forum post you quoted ALSO says it starts whenever we start the raid, last night we started the timer around 730 and you made a fuss. Did you not see the 10 other people, not even officers, jump on you immediately and tell you to just stop?.... "I STRONGLY encourage starting the DKP timer at 7.30pm SHARP. If people join the raid after 7.30pm, they will only get a % of the DKP. With 2 raid nights, we need to make sure people are online on time and ready to raid. We cannot allow anymore that raids start on average one full hour late like last raid tier. Please take this into consideration" YOU said that, that was your own quote.... and yet last night you argued with us when we started the timer @ 730...... saying it should be at 8. You are starting fights for the sake of it it seems. THIS is what this is about now? Are you kidding me? YES.. I am all in favor of starting the timer at 7.30pm. Thanks for finding the quote for me, otherwise I had to go get it. BUT, I was shut down back then. I aksed Snug (and other officers) why the timer is starting at 8pm and I was told "Because that is when our raid starts.... at 7.30pm is just doing trash". That is what happened. That was the final say back then. That is what I got used to - and surely others did as well. Then all of a sudden, the timer yesterday gets started shortly after 7.30pm. The raid was not full at that point, but members kept being added. I thought that an UNANNOUNCED change like this (for better or worse) is not correct - thus I stated my opinion. People being added after the timer started were screwed - I did not agree with that. Two times in a row we now had these kind of unannounced changes. Yes, I will say something. And yes I will listen to arguments against it - but I will give counter arguments if I think that your reasoning is just not right or complete. It was not. If you do not get that point then I feel sorry for you. Your feedback is valuable, but what the heck was bugging you so badly last night? If I say that here, Bash will probably go nuts... or explode or something, since he already went nuts. Feel free to catch me on steam later. Waiting for you to talk to me.
Lyntha Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 I'll be shooting my Mosin today so I won't be on till later . And Bash, I see where he's coming from. My rules DID state that the timer was to be started at 8, not at 7:30. That's not what happened last night and even I asked in officer chat why the hell the timer was started so early. I apologize for not escalating it from there Sazda, but I have to pick where to concentrate my energies. I laid out a good start for the DKP system but it's now in the assist GM's and GM's hands. They're responsible for it. Although the officers' opinions are heard with regards to DKP, the final decisions and running of the system are up to them. Me and bash have no control over it, so you should be talking to Gump about it. I understand how this seems like a bullshit answer, and to be honest it kind of is, but I really don't give a shit about the DKP system. I try to focus on having us progress, teaching fights, etc. My focus as an officer is on the raid-leading. Just like you wouldn't go to the CFO of a company for IT issues or the CIO of a company for financial issues, I'm not the best person to handle questions about the DKP system. Gump doesn't read the forums during the day (He actually has a real job where he can't sit on the computer all day) so talking to him in-game is the best way to reach him. So now that I batted the DKP issue into the GM and assist GM's court, is there anything else that we're still debating here?
Varibash Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 I never "go nuts" feel free to speak about whatever it is you want. I am not beyond reasoning. While I do see your point, I just don't think it was worth causing arguement, over since our post doe say 8, it also says whenever we start the raid. I do not run the dkp, but I also get irritated when people appear to be causing unnessary drama, and yes I realize my comments can also be causing the drama/increasing it. But anyway, I went and took a shower and I am my relaxed self again, so please, lets discuss this.
Lyntha Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 As I said in a recent PM to Sazda, you and him both want what's best for the guild, although it's fairly obvious that you two have some differing opinions and some personalty clashes. Just remember Bash, that no matter how annoying Sazda may seem to be to you, he is only trying to help. Last I checked, none of us are perfect and the collective efforts of multiple people is going to be greater than the efforts of one person. Also remember that you are just as annoying to him as he is to you
Iammoot Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 resolution: http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/380/373/03a.jpg How I feel: http://images.wikia.com/central/images/3/38/Okay_face.jpg
Rebelogic Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 Regarding the iron-man timer, yesterday we had about 90% of our raid in the group when we started it. I remember it being around 7:38 when it was started. Most of the remaining 10% of the raid had told us they either would not here, or would be on later than 8. As far as people who got in the group before 8PM and complained about not getting the ironman bonus after being told it went off already, I think it was no one. So, yes, it was an arbitrary decision made by the officers, but it was a founded decision balancing rewarding those who came early a little more for coming on before 8PM and knowing that most of the remaining would be on later than 8PM. Before we make any steadfast rules about the timer start time for the future, we should simply field the question to the rest of the raid to see if they can all at least get online by 7:30 on a normal day. If most of them say yes, the timer will begin at 7:30. Sazda, regarding the "downer" issue, all we ask is that you try to maintain an air of constructive criticism, that is all. If someone states something that is pure opinion but has a positive spin, at the very least people tend to be motivated a little, and tend to work a little harder. Now, if you do that with a negative opinion statement, the opposite results. Now, instead of an opinion statement, if it is a factual statement, the tonality increases or decreases the effect of the message exponentially. At the end of the day, regardless of what I or anyone else thinks about what you say, you have to ask yourself two questions 1) What is the goal of my raid criticisms? and 2) Did I achieve my goals? I assume that the goal is to improve the raid somehow whenever you share your opinions. Knowing that, I don't harp on you much for saying things the way you do, but even you should agree that saying blanket insults doesn't really help anyone. It is simply catharsis and I get that, but please stick to the posts where you include strat suggestions and answer peoples questions to help them out. You are good at that and people respond well to it.
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