Ftfk Posted March 29, 2014 Posted March 29, 2014 3 weeks ago we had the edgeworth drama, sha of pride wager and drama, jordan peacing on protectors, and the iron juggernaut weapon/dkp drama.And before that it was all the ugarg drama and before that we weren't even having people show up for raids (without posting) and it looked like we weren't going to ever down protectors.
Varkul Posted March 29, 2014 Posted March 29, 2014 Ugarg wasnt drama, we just hated him there was ugarg drama?
Ansky Posted March 29, 2014 Posted March 29, 2014 3 weeks ago we had the edgeworth drama, sha of pride wager and drama, jordan peacing on protectors, and the iron juggernaut weapon/dkp drama. And before that it was all the ugarg drama and before that we weren't even having people show up for raids (without posting) and it looked like we weren't going to ever down protectors. Guilds will always have some kind of drama. The officers have done a good job at keeping the guild together through it. I just don't see core raider stuff being anything but extra drama without actually benefiting the raid.
Ftfk Posted March 29, 2014 Posted March 29, 2014 Guilds will always have some kind of drama. The officers have done a good job at keeping the guild together through it. I just don't see core raider stuff being anything but extra drama without actually benefiting the raid. At this point I agree entirely. The whole point of core raider experiment was to modify the rank to try to make people more accountable and increase raid awareness. Before the changes, progression was get in the guild, stay in the guild a little longer and get raider, stay in the guild some more time past that and get core raider. Before these changes we had people who felt entitled to raid spots or get in on certain bosses because they were core raider and core raider had no accountability aside from punctuality.
Ansky Posted March 29, 2014 Posted March 29, 2014 At this point I agree entirely. The whole point of core raider experiment was to modify the rank to try to make people more accountable and increase raid awareness. Before the changes, progression was get in the guild, stay in the guild a little longer and get raider, stay in the guild some more time past that and get core raider. Before these changes we had people who felt entitled to raid spots or get in on certain bosses because they were core raider and core raider had no accountability aside from punctuality. Having a Core Raider as just a step up from Raider and based on seniority would be more appropriate. Like Raider, it would have basic requirements, for example six months in the guild and 80% attendance, and it would give that fine line between who is core and who is not. Yes, there will be many, but it would also give new people something to goal towards. And it wouldn't cause drama because there is no competition.
Mastric Posted March 29, 2014 Posted March 29, 2014 At this point I agree entirely. The whole point of core raider experiment was to modify the rank to try to make people more accountable and increase raid awareness. Before the changes, progression was get in the guild, stay in the guild a little longer and get raider, stay in the guild some more time past that and get core raider. Before these changes we had people who felt entitled to raid spots or get in on certain bosses because they were core raider and core raider had no accountability aside from punctuality. Having a Core Raider as just a step up from Raider and based on seniority would be more appropriate. Like Raider, it would have basic requirements, for example six months in the guild and 80% attendance, and it would give that fine line between who is core and who is not. Yes, there will be many, but it would also give new people something to goal towards. And it wouldn't cause drama because there is no competition. Das not a bad idea
OffTheChain Posted March 29, 2014 Posted March 29, 2014 so far as the titles are concerned...I care not for a different name, i like them nearly all the same. You can call me this or call me that, as long as i am holding a cat. with all of you these thoughts are loose, in reminiscence of Dr. Suess. =P in all srsness, the main perks to raider/core raider status i feel as though all repairs should be covered by the guild if it is current content. same as the flasks, im sure we dont require rank for those, idk. i feel as though if we let someone into our raid grp, theyre under our umbrella. the main perk i noticed was 100g difference in repairs. some nights the 300 core raider gets doesnt cover but about half of it. perhaps we should bolster our g bank to cover all repairs for raiders and make it as simple as that. one title to rule them all, save the coveted O postions. kinda taken aback that some have been upset over this as ive never even thought it was that big of a deal. but if some are feeling like theyre not appreciated over other raiders then action should be taken imo. i feel as though we have enough ppl that if we were so inclined, perhaps we could bolster a second grp for more dedicated players and one for more casual players. just some random thoughts.
Ftfk Posted March 29, 2014 Posted March 29, 2014 Having a Core Raider as just a step up from Raider and based on seniority would be more appropriate. Like Raider, it would have basic requirements, for example six months in the guild and 80% attendance, and it would give that fine line between who is core and who is not. Yes, there will be many, but it would also give new people something to goal towards. And it wouldn't cause drama because there is no competition. Even when core raider rank was solely time served based it still caused drama. Core raiders were expecting preferential treatment (sitting all bosses they didn't want to do, staying in on boss attempts after repeated failures). Personally I would prefer and more selective guild application and trial period and then raider ranks for all. i feel as though we have enough ppl that if we were so inclined, perhaps we could bolster a second grp for more dedicated players and one for more casual players. just some random thoughts. The primary problem with this is that drama is happening cause of a different rank. If we formed 2 raid groups, then people would complain why they aren't with what they deem to be the best group. It all boils down to people worry too much about where they stack up against everyone else (dps charts, healing charts, ilvl, rank, etc.) instead of what they can do to improve themselves. I had to listen to someone throw several people under the bus because they played different classes or specs that were outperforming them or saying that people die on purpose to troll the raid.
Ansky Posted March 29, 2014 Posted March 29, 2014 (edited) Core raiders were expecting preferential treatment (sitting all bosses they didn't want to do, staying in on boss attempts after repeated failures. Personally I would prefer and more selective guild application and trial period and then raider ranks for all. To be fair, it's already happening regardless of having the rank with the same people who would be in that rank. But yes, I would also be good without all the extra hoopla of ranks. Edited March 29, 2014 by Ansky
Rednaltocs Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 I personally feel a lot of the benefits of the core raider rank are not being discussed and all the negatives are being brought out. This might be anecdotal, but I feel since the introduction of the new ranks, the guild as a whole has stepped up in terms of performance, with a lot less people failing personal mechanics and generally performing better. I know we're a casual guild and don't focus on that thing and care more about the atmosphere, but to me, the atmosphere and enjoyment from our raids is greatest when we are all performing greatly and seeing actual progression. Repeated failure with no noticeable gains can turn the friendliest guild very frosty when someone makes the same mistake twice. That being said, all the other points brought up here are mostly true as ell, its very much a catch 22. If I had a choice, I would go with Varlash's suggestion of a limited amount of core raiders with stringent requirements, but I can see why people would be averse to that decision. I'm just glad I'm not an officer who has to work all this shit out
Varibash Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 I think I want to go with the "Veteran Raider" idea suggested in this thread. I rank that would be given to people who have been raiding with us a long time. (8-12 months) That's time frame is 1-2 tiers of content depending on Blizzards development cycle. The rank would have the increased gold for repairs and more access to the tabs in the guild bank ( people who have been around awhile are less likely to ninja loot the gbank and gquit.) To keep things competitive within the raid team we could do something like: Highest average(highest top 3) dps/hps on boss fights for the week (combined average) could be put into a guild raffle contest, and the person who's name gets pulled on the raffle would win like 1k from the guild bank. idk, something a long those lines, mainly focusing on keep things friendly but still encourage competition among our raiders. What do you guys think?
Justicemaker Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 I think the 'core raider' system is unnecessary and the cons outway the pros. Obviously decisions have to be made on who will be in the raid for each fight which is a balancing act between giving everyone an opportunity to play and making sure we down bosses and progress. But I really don't care that I'm labelled a 'core raider', and would prefer not to have the title given that there are others who feel lesser for not having it. As for the casual/hardcore thing, I'm happy with what we do. We get a good amount done in the small time we have, In the past I have been in a 25 hour/week server first guild and there lots of players in our group who are just as good as the ones from that guild. Thanks to the officers for all of their efforts in running raids, doing dkp, dealing with nonsense, etc. I appreciate it!
Varibash Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 I love you justice, you get it. Please don't ever leave.
Viledead Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) But I really don't care that I'm labelled a 'core raider', and would prefer not to have the title given that there are others who feel lesser for not having it. This is what being a team member is all about. My two cents are this - you can't divide the base. Some will donate more. Some are always perfectly on time. Some are amazing at dps. Some will almost never die to mechanics. Some research fights in massive detail in advance. The challenge is common in the final tier - players centralize around guilds that are still effective at raiding. Those guilds progress more. Hardcore vs casual comes up. It's the cycle of WoW. Edited March 31, 2014 by Viledead
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