Lyntha Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 A few people wanted to lust at the start of the fight on Mythic Kargath instead of when at high favor. Pros of Lusting at start: -Trinket procs will line up -You can do silly pre-pull stuff; some classes benefit more from lust at start of fight -A little bit less movement since you don't have to worry about Berserker Rush -Easier to pull off successfully Pros of Lusting at high favor: -100% damage boost is greater than the boost that trinkets lining up will give you, no matter how good the trinket is -If timed properly, you can still have a pot up for it -If timed properly, you can still have major CD's up for it -Some classes have ramp-up time and don't benefit as much from lust at start of the fight -It's just plain more DPS For what it's worth, every Mythic Kargath guide I've checked says to lust at high favor on this fight. Traditionally, you save lust on bosses if you're gonna have more than 50% damage increase for an extended time during the fight. http://www.icy-veins.com/wow/kargath-bladefist-strategy-guide-normal-heroic-mythic http://www.wowhead.com/guide=2784/kargath-bladefist-highmaul-raid-strategy-guide /discuss
Crazy Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 You have 3 more dps utilizing the lust at the start, I have never gotten a full lust as chain group. Also, if it's a shitty pull (like a healer/tank misses the chains you don't really have to worry about your favor). I dunno, I just think getting him to 60% before the first berserker rush is much more important, and then utilizing the 100% favor with lust, I mean, you should still use pots and CD's for it, but lusting at the start is way more consistent.
Tourettsbear Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 I think while learning the fight, lusting at the start provides much more damage to the boss. I think when the fight becomes more comfortable, and 3-4 people aren't dead when we get to 100 favor we should lust at that point. So to be clear, while learning fight (like we still are) lust at start, when it's farmable, lust at 100 favor.
Lyntha Posted January 15, 2015 Author Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) I don't like having a farm strat and a progression strat. This guild isn't the best at adapting on the fly. Muln I did some math with Simcraft. With your gear, over the first 40 seconds of the fight, you should be doing 41688 dps without lust and 52376 dps with it. Lust will boost your dps by almost exactly 25%, for a static DPS boost of about 10k dps over the duration of lust. 10k dps x 40 seconds = a boost of 400,000 damage Our kargath kill took 6:38 so I did a sim run on your dps over the entire duration of a 6:00 fight without lust and it gave me 27599 dps. That's your average dps over 6 minutes no lust with full raid buffs. We've already established that Lust boosts your dps by about 25%. If we double your average dps from 100 favor, we get 55198 dps. 25% of that is 13,799.5 dps. 13799.5 dps x 40 seconds = a damage boost of 551,980 With perfect opening lust conditions, you can expect a 400k damage boost. With subpar high favor lust conditions (No saving CD's, no popping pot), you can expect a damage boost of 552k. Lusting during 100 favor is clearly better even in non-perfect conditions. In reality, you would line up your CD's and pop pots bringing the damage differential even higher. For other classes with ramp-up time, the difference will be even greater. /math Edited January 15, 2015 by Lyntha
Crazy Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) Having different strats for farm and kill should be a thing though. That's what happens after a boss is on farm. Also you are describing a perfect scenario, which never happened last night. we 19 manned it, because apparently we like bringing in people with connection issues. Edited January 15, 2015 by Muln
Tourettsbear Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 Right, but take into account Lyntha that we didn't lust with 100 favor, it was like 91. Also, according to warcraft logs 1 dps was dead when we received the time warp buff. VS. 100% of the raid receiving the buff at the start of the fight. Also, I agree with Muln, your number's seem a bit skewed. I'll verify myself at some point this week.
Lyntha Posted January 15, 2015 Author Posted January 15, 2015 Having different strats for farm and kill should be a thing though. That's what happens after a boss is on farm. Also you are describing a perfect scenario, which never happened last night. I'm describing a perfect scenario for the start of the fight and a subpar scenario for the high-favor lust and it's still far far towards a high-favor lust. In a more perfect and realistic scenario, the difference would be much higher. I already explained this though. We 19 manned it, because apparently we like bringing in people with connection issues. Do you have anything constructive to add or are you just complaining? We are not gods, we can't predict the future. We can't predict that somebody will DC out of nowhere. We had a LOT of DC problems last night and it seemed to be a problem that randomly affected multiple people and wasn't limited to one or even two people. Are you seriously upset at the decision to bring in Will since he ended up DCing? Right, but take into account Lyntha that we didn't lust with 100 favor, it was like 91. Also, according to warcraft logs 1 dps was dead when we received the time warp buff. VS. 100% of the raid receiving the buff at the start of the fight. Also, I agree with Muln, your number's seem a bit skewed. I'll verify myself at some point this week. Well definitely and we can tweak the numbers but my numbers for the high-favor lust were way lower than what could be realistically expected and we are still way above start-of-fight dps. It's impossible to fully math out this problem but my numbers give us a ballpark range of numbers so we can have some more concrete data and the data points towards one conclusion.
Crazy Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) Muln, on 15 Jan 2015 - 4:33 PM, said: We 19 manned it, because apparently we like bringing in people with connection issues. Do you have anything constructive to add or are you just complaining? We are not gods, we can't predict the future. We can't predict that somebody will DC out of nowhere. We had a LOT of DC problems last night and it seemed to be a problem that randomly affected multiple people and wasn't limited to one or even two people. Are you seriously upset at the decision to bring in Will since he ended up DCing? _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ He was here for the beginning of the fight, so he would have benefited from the lust as well. And yeah, we had only like 3 different people dc, others were that they couldn't log right back in without a comp restart. Those people were Roqwell, Arma and Will. You should give people time to recover from disconnecting and put in someone else instead of putting them right back in after they reconnect. We had plenty of non disconnecters on the bench that were much more reliable. Also, you ARE describing a perfect scenario for lusting at 100 favor. First off we would need the high favor which would mean a) The BoP happened properly b)The correct people go up on chain hurl c) we do well in the stands killing all the bombers and grunts for low heckle d) people burn the cat e) nobody dies to the cat f) we have all 20 people connected and alive Then, and only then does your lusting at high favor work, which doesn't happen often during progression. Do you have anything constructive to add or are you just complaining? We brought Will in right after he reconnected instead of bringing in a more stable dps like Gromn or Jesseh??? I was saying that it wasn't a perfect scenario because Will was dc. Why is everything I say looked at as a complaint or an attack? holy shit... it's both a complaint because it was a poor choice and should be constructive. Edited January 15, 2015 by Muln
Lyntha Posted January 16, 2015 Author Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) My sims didn't take into consideration people saving CD's and pots for the high-favor phase because it's difficult to simulate that scenario with Simcraft. In practice, everyone's burst dps would be much higher. How much DPS do you gain with a pot and your CD's? Add that onto the base amount and multiply by 25% then see the difference. You will probably be doing more like 50% - 75% more during the high-favor lust phase than a start-of-fight lust phase in perfect conditions. In less than perfect conditions like messing up CDs or not having as high a favor, the damage would certainly go down but the gap is big enough to cover any situation. And I really don't think that anybody is arguing that in a perfect scenario, lusting with high favor is MUUUCH better Edited January 16, 2015 by Lyntha
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