Mortelinnor Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Hello team! As I'm sure you're all aware by now, Blackrock Foundry will be accessible starting on February 3rd. In the light of the recent argument on which boss to kill next, I thought it might be good for everyone to voice their opinion about the next raid and ultimately have the officers decide and let everyone know what they're in for beforehand. This will hopefully save drama so we have more time for raid and ramens! Before answering Mort's greatest forum topic, please follow these guidelines: 1. Speak for yourself. Voice your opinion, gives the pros and cons you see and don't speak for others. 2. Be respectful of other's people opinion. I don't want another topic of endless quoting and beating a dead black horse (i.e quotes are unadvised, unless you write 100% agree under it! (because you're lazy and don't want to repeat)). 3. Don't be rude towards ramens. 4. Flex is not a thing. Only Normal and Heroic. Now that this has been said, I'll start! 1. Starting with a Normal full clear: Pros: Easier learning of mechanics (they hit for less). This should also allow the use of sub-par strats until we get good ones the week after release! Almost guaranteed to full clear, thus getting tier tokens for several people. Normal BRF being only 5 ilvl off of heroic Highmaul, set bonuses will still be upgrades for some people. With the high full clear chance in mind, more progress on the legendary quest (I doubt people already have 300 runes). This one is kinda pulled from far, but with more boss kills, people will get higher tiers of BRF gear from their garrison faster. Cons: A lot of gear might end up sharded. "Normal doesn't matter!" Should take something like 1-2 raid nights off of heroic progression. 2. Starting with Heroic progression. Pros: Most of the gear should find a happy new owner. #WoWProgressrankthedream. Gear is almost as good as Mythic Highmaul, and likely more easily obtainable. Cons: Using scheduled raid times to push heroic bosses will set part of the raid team behind on the legendary quest, as LFR doesn't unlock fully until March 24. I highly doubt we can full clear Heroic Foundry on the first week, even if we use the whole 2 raid nights, by looking at our progression in Highmaul (the first few weeks). Probably won't kill enough bosses to get people set bonuses (need at least 2 tier pieces). Mechanics will be less forgiving, which will slow down our mechanics learning process. Here's my opinion on how to handle the matter: Personally, I think we should start the first week with clearing Normal, ensuring everyone several runes for their legendary, as well as allowing everyone to see all the fights. Sharded gear is a downside, but the crystals can still be used the week after to enchant our shiny new heroic weapons. It also shouldn't take us the whole 2 raid nights, allowing for some heroic progression on the second night. From then, depending on our heroic progress, we could start raid weeks by doing heroic progression, and then finish the clear on normal for the bosses we haven't yet killed on heroic. This should ensure everyone gets the maximum amount of runes for their ring (assuming they show up on all raid nights), while also giving people a shot at heroic gear and tier tokens (both heroic and normal). Feel free to voice your opinion on the matter, but remember the R word (which is surprisingly not Ramen): Respect. Have a nice day team!
Varlash Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) Normal mode 100% matters, just not in highmaul now that we can clear 6/7 with almost no effort. I completely agree with you here. do normal mode, maybe not full clear, like in highmaul there may be better options. but learning the fights the first week and getting tier tokens for everybody i feel would definitely be the best bet. I think you should add an option for use "Normal mode to learn Blackrock Foundry." Edited January 16, 2015 by Varlash
Ansky Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Normal might give us a couple nights to just relax, have fun, and do some crazy stuff on fights that won't matter because they'll be a joke. It might pick up the raid atmosphere. However, the fact that the ilvl of the gear is lower than heroic Highmaul, I would say it's probably more a waste of raid time than going straight for heroic. The thing is, we will end up clearing heroic (as long as we don't do what we did in Highmaul and skip harder boses for easier mythic bosses), and if it's anything like Highmaul, mechanics we'll need to learn will be on heroic and mythic, not normal. I'm all for clearing it if the officers decide to do so, I'm all for fun, but I won't have a problem if we went straight for heroic.
Mortelinnor Posted January 16, 2015 Author Posted January 16, 2015 Just to clarify, Normal and Heroic have the same mechanics, but it might not end up as a wipe if someone has poor execution, whereas it would on heroic.
Ansky Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Do they, though? For example, the cat pits on Kargath. They're closed on normal but opn on heroic. Doing heroic is more beneficial to us learning not to fall in them, for the kill and for mythic. I'll be honest, I don't know Blackrock, but normal seemed more like lfr with more health and damage, while heroic was more preparing us for mythic.
Varlash Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) the cat pits are open on normal, they are only closed on lfr normal and heroic Highmaul are identical for mechanics Edited January 16, 2015 by Varlash
Mortelinnor Posted January 16, 2015 Author Posted January 16, 2015 Cats are closed in LFR, open in normal and heroic but only wait in there, and come out on Mythic if I recall correctly. Normal and heroic are literally the same mechanics wise except for bosses health and damage. Oops, looks like Varlash beat me to it.
Ansky Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 I thought they were closed in normal too. Been a while I guess haha. Ok then, never mind.
Varlash Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 my votes normal for 1-2 weeks for stratagy/ tier. beat heroic, then do the real raid. mythic
Crazy Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) BRF Normal gear is 665. Most of our raiders are passed that, we would really gain nothing spending time on normal. There are already strategies in place from beta. Yeah there are tier pieces, but the tier pieces we should be aiming for are the heroic ones. Normal = Heroic on everything but the amount of damage needed/taken, so I would think that normal is even more useless now. Edited January 16, 2015 by Muln
Varlash Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) Very Few of our Raiders are above 670, which means 665gear is an upgrade for them. plus tier sets will out weight 5 item levels Edited January 16, 2015 by Varlash
Crazy Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) Very Few of our Raiders are above 670, which means 665gear is an upgrade for them. plus tier sets will out weight 5 item levels You are in the mindset that someone that gets a tier piece will get another tier piece to complete the set to make it worth it. Heroic tier is still way better than normal. If you want your tier sets that bad, you will have better luck pugging it since it's going to be easier to pug than Highmaul, and you won't be in EPGP debt. Plus it has been stated multiple times, Highmaul is harder than BRF, getting 680 gear has a chance to gear everyone, and not just the people who are below 665+. Nothing you have said convinces me that BRF normal is worth a scheduled raid night. Edited January 16, 2015 by Muln
Varlash Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 It has gear for our entire raid, including you, its a quick easy way to learn the fights and get some uprgades
Crazy Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 It has gear for our entire raid, including you, its a quick easy way to learn the fights and get some uprgades it has two upgrades for me, while heroic has 14 upgrades and more for others. Also, I have stated before, the fights already have strategy videos from beta. Nothing big has changed from beta to now. We should know the fights before February the 3rd anyways.
Mortelinnor Posted January 17, 2015 Author Posted January 17, 2015 Gah no, guys, you broke rule number 2, we're all doomed, the world is going to be flooded with Mountain Dew!
Edgeworth Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 I'm all for normal mode first. I think getting into heroic first might net us some big ilvl upgrades but we'll be seeing a lot less of them due to time spent clearing, learning and the tuning being tougher. Normal first means of course more boss kills, more people getting 2 piece set bonuses [good lord I want that] and we'll get a basic feel for the fight. Watching videos, which not everyone does, only gives us a basic idea and only helps usprepare us for it so much. I think we should go shitstomp normal first and then in week 2 probably switch to heroic until we feel like we hit a wall, then make a decision to keep on normal or switch to heroic. I do however understand that our first heroic BRF will probably be easier than our first heroic Highmaul. We really underestimated the tuning in week one and got lol pwnt, and we based that off of our SoO experiences. I guess we'll just have to wait and see, and listen to the other guilds' experiences with it. If it's true that tuning wise, it's pretty easy on heroic, we might have a decent shot of making good progression, but remember: we're casual and don't care about MUH POROGRESSHUN. Fun>All
Roqwell Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 I agree with Edgeworth. I don't think it would take us more than one week to full clear BRF assuming that the rumors are correct in that it's easier than Highmaul + the average ilvl of the raid team. We'd smash through it easy and it would help us learn the base mechanics for each fight and just chill for a week. If it's so easy we can blow through it all in one night then that's grand, we blow through it all in one night and do heroic the next night. We would waste one week not doing heroics in order to run normal first, but that's only if you look at it as a waste. Learning base mechanics, chilling out, possible upgrades for some people, couple easy runes.... I don't think spending a week doing something that still gives benefits to the raid is a "waste". Furthermore, I doubt we'd do it for more than one clear or one week. By week two, if it's as we predict, I can't see many people being against heroic. We shoot for progression but we also shoot for a good raid atmosphere and I can't help but feel a little nervous that if we stormed in to do heroic BRF it would be like when we went to Heroic Twins and got smashed (different circumstances, but same emotional turmoil of shock and death). We can steady ourselves first and then run, or hit the ground running and possibly trip. Both options have uncertainty and neither is solid at the moment since we haven't experienced what isn't even out yet. In the end I'll go with what majority/officers want to do but I don't think one week (possibly a day) of a normal full clear would be such a catastrophic waste of precious time down to the minute. Might not be a big help but it definitely wouldn't hurt.
Tourettsbear Posted January 26, 2015 Posted January 26, 2015 I agree with the idea that everyone is saying.. But personally I would rather step straight into heroic BRF. Then on an off night do a normal run. (Luckily it comes out my week back to work so I'll be available every night ) I think this will give us the best gear, best progression, and be the most challenging. I will follow the lead of ftfk/lyntha. But honestly, I don't see much point in stepping into completely pug-able content on a main raid night
Lyntha Posted January 26, 2015 Posted January 26, 2015 The officers are leaning towards us starting into Heroic BRF right away. I was the person saying "Trust me guys, we need to start on normal highmaul" and nobody believed me but it was very necessary. The average ilvl of our raiders was about 20 below normal highmaul gear and we were too far behind to effectively do Heroic Highmaul. We are now in a position where the average ilvl of our raiders is right around 670 now but will be higher as we put in more farm time over the coming weeks. We are looking at doing a raid where the normal-mode version drops 665 gear. We will be vastly over-geared for normal and it doesn't make much sense for us to start there. We will be overgeared even for heroic, at least for the first half.
Mortelinnor Posted January 27, 2015 Author Posted January 27, 2015 Sounds fine to me, but it would be nice to still get max runestones (i.e through optional normal full run (please not a Saturday)) until LFR (bleh) is fully released. In the end, the main goal is to have fun killing dragons as a team, so difficulty won't matter much.
Tourettsbear Posted January 27, 2015 Posted January 27, 2015 Typically, alt runs are usually thursday/sunday.. Saturdays are the rare exceptions.
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