Roqwell Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 There is a certain amount of hypocrisy with the officers and it's been pointed out a lot in this post and in the past. However, to make a general conclusion of that topic, I think it's mostly being dealt with and done with. Yes, the officers do still go against the rules like last night when we were waiting to start because officers needed to talk with people but it wasn't intentional breaking of the rules. Nor are any of the other times the officers broke the rules intentional like with a bias to certain members. They were things that passively became a habit and were looked over by the officers because as with what most people do; it's easy to criticize another but difficult to find the faults in yourself. The officers have all greatly improved on being less bias and holding up to the rules themselves but like everyone they still screw up here and there. The difference is, now the officers are trying to be more diligent in punishing themselves and trying to fix the problems they cause. It's not from them thinking the rules don't apply to them, but from forgetting the rules still apply to them. A lot of this post, I feel, keeps talking about the past. Not just the past like yesterday or last week but the last month, last half year, last expansion, and as I said before: people learn and change. Things change from day to day and in general I feel like things are changing for the better. Last night was very fun and enjoyable despite the little screw-ups some people had which were dealt with quickly and we all moved on. Things change every day and honestly, it seems like everyone keeps focusing more on the past than the present and especially more on the past than the future. These rules have barely been implemented yet and for the most part they seem fair. Most of them are rules that I came in expecting like, don't be late regularly, come enchanted and prepared, know your class, etc. etc. and to me it's a little weird seeing them have to be reiterated over and over again; so I guess restating what should have been a given isn't some set of ridiculously set rules out of the blue... it's what always should have been. These rules aren't as strict as some people make them out to be and as Snugg said they don't pertain to most of the raiding core, just a select few. All this past talk just becomes tiring and it's difficult to stop holding onto the past, especially where you felt wronged, but there reaches a point (that I feel most of the raiding core have met) where you need to just move on and focus about bettering the present/future than fixing the past which.. as far as it's concerned factually.. you can't change. Time is a permanent mark and we can't go back but we can definitely guide the future. Quote
Tourettsbear Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 There is a certain amount of hypocrisy with the officers and it's been pointed out a lot in this post and in the past. However, to make a general conclusion of that topic, I think it's mostly being dealt with and done with. Yes, the officers do still go against the rules like last night when we were waiting to start because officers needed to talk with people but it wasn't intentional breaking of the rules. Nor are any of the other times the officers broke the rules intentional like with a bias to certain members. They were things that passively became a habit and were looked over by the officers because as with what most people do; it's easy to criticize another but difficult to find the faults in yourself. The officers have all greatly improved on being less bias and holding up to the rules themselves but like everyone they still screw up here and there. The difference is, now the officers are trying to be more diligent in punishing themselves and trying to fix the problems they cause. It's not from them thinking the rules don't apply to them, but from forgetting the rules still apply to them. A lot of this post, I feel, keeps talking about the past. Not just the past like yesterday or last week but the last month, last half year, last expansion, and as I said before: people learn and change. Things change from day to day and in general I feel like things are changing for the better. Last night was very fun and enjoyable despite the little screw-ups some people had which were dealt with quickly and we all moved on. Things change every day and honestly, it seems like everyone keeps focusing more on the past than the present and especially more on the past than the future. These rules have barely been implemented yet and for the most part they seem fair. Most of them are rules that I came in expecting like, don't be late regularly, come enchanted and prepared, know your class, etc. etc. and to me it's a little weird seeing them have to be reiterated over and over again; so I guess restating what should have been a given isn't some set of ridiculously set rules out of the blue... it's what always should have been. These rules aren't as strict as some people make them out to be and as Snugg said they don't pertain to most of the raiding core, just a select few. All this past talk just becomes tiring and it's difficult to stop holding onto the past, especially where you felt wronged, but there reaches a point (that I feel most of the raiding core have met) where you need to just move on and focus about bettering the present/future than fixing the past which.. as far as it's concerned factually.. you can't change. Time is a permanent mark and we can't go back but we can definitely guide the future. Roq for Prime Minister 2016. Quote
Roqwell Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 Also as a slightly side note, I think this video directly deals with the issue Will is having with the officers, at least in the part where he was called a racist. Not so much on who's right but a good video to explain how the conversation could have been better approached (I wasn't present but from what I gather there are ill-feelings regarding it) and maybe give ideas on how to move forward. Maybe an explanation on why what he did was wrong or an apology for the assumption he was racist.. I don't know because I'm not a part of that argument but just offering a means to resolve the problem. Quote
Tourettsbear Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 Yea, the problem is though, Will isn't racist, he's just speciest. He doesn't care if we're black, white, yellow, pink, purple, green, blue, yellow, pink, orange, green, black, or white. He see's 2 Legs and assumes we're apes. It's also why fights like paragons of the klaxxi, and Iron maidens, will be easier for him mechanically. He will always run to the red light. You may rub his belly 8 times, but not 9. Quote
jesseh Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 1st off.. damn it tbear making me laugh n stuff 2nd off i think the biggest issue with what's going on with will is there wasn't context to why or how some of his comments were racist remarks. at least to my understanding, I had a long conversation with him after raid last night and this was brought up a few times. I don't really recall a time when he's said racist things off hand or even looking back. I think that if you're going to accuse someone of something like this it is very important to have your argument ready to which I was told there wasn't. mind you I did not hear what was said in the talk but I know what I was told. I don't think that this should be publicized but I think that it was a damaging comment and without irrefutable proof an apology is owed. Quote
Tourettsbear Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 I like how your profile pic is "You wouldnt download a bear" Close to my heart. #INB4SHEHASABFTBEAR! in all seriousness, I did apologize to Will for that. I don't think it's accurate reason as to why he was put on this warning plan. It was never discussed as a reason, and should not have been said. Quote
kansir Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 I know this post is focused on the rules and whats going on. I have a very open view of the whole thing. But I just want to point out some reason why I enjoy raiding with EVERYONE. I really enjoy making and handing out as many potions/flasks as possible. It gives me a feeling of worth (now I know as a healer I do being some level of importance to raid). My record for pots/flasks handed out in one night is close to 300! Comic release! There are so many characters in the raid it really makes for some great laughs. Lastly, the challenge. You people are always talking about fighting dragon... I just want to see the dragon! Yes, I've read this entire post and have been keeping up with it all day and this was the only 2 cents I had. Quote
jesseh Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) Tbear i know you did but its not you who needs to offer the apology. Regardless of is something should or should not had been said it was and that's something to be taken up between the officers and him. more so the ones who said it (whoever it was) Edited February 11, 2015 by jesseh Quote
Tourettsbear Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 you both have the exact amount of posts.. It's pretty crazy. Quote
Lyntha Posted February 11, 2015 Author Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) you both have the exact amount of posts.. It's pretty crazy. <--- Can't touch this Edited February 11, 2015 by Lyntha Quote
Ftfk Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 Kinda bummed out reading a lot of the animosity and underhandedness that has gone on in this post. Theres 8 rules Snugg brought up, but really there is only 3 really core ideas - 1.) Show up on time, 2.) Show up prepared, and 3.) Don't be a dick. Showing up on time We are a team. Growing up I did a lot of team sports, part of being part of a team is showing up for team events. If you are not able to field a full team at the start of a match because or tardiness, you are starting yourself off at a disadvantage. If you have to continue to play man down because of absence, you will always fall short of your goals. Sure it sucks to lose your spot on a team because of factors outside of your control, but it also sucks for the other 19 members on you team when they are waiting around because we a short a healer or a tank or a dps. Showing up prepared Going back to the whole sports thing. Part of playings sports is understanding the rules and showing up with the right equipment to play the game. If someone shows up without their shoes to a soccer match it is going to dramatically effect how they are able to play the game. If they show up to play without knowing the rules, maybe they will just pick the ball up with their hands or kick the ball into the wrong goal. Enchants and gems are like our soccer cletes when it comes to raiding, if you show up without these things you are dramatically effecting (negatively) how you are able to play the game. Boss strategies are the rules of all the raid encounters we do. When people break rules in sports, players are removed from the competition and the remaining team is put at a disadvantage. This is no different than failing mechanics and causing the easily avoidable death of yourself or other because you did not come to the raid knowing the rules for the boss encounter. You don't show up to game day expecting to learn how to play football and you shouldn't come to raid not having at least a general idea of what the mechanics are. Not being a dick I figured this one was kind of self explanatory. We tried a more laid back approach and that got us no where. Now we have to take the much less fun approach. I'll leave you with a quote to think about: "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" - Spock Even with all this sports talk, I am still a nerd at heart. The officers are not trying to be mean, or to single anyone out. We aren't going to remove people cause they aren't min/maxing. We aren't trying to remove people we have beef with. What we are doing is trying to resolve issues that are brought up week after week. Quote
Willshattner Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 You claim that you resolve issues, but if that were the case all these people wouldn't have all these built up issues. All of the officers besides Tbear continue to dance around any valid points and arguements made against them, and the only response from them is we aren't perfect instead of addressing the actual issues. For somme of you that think there isn't a bias from the officers when it comes to people then I think you need to pay more attention to the raids and how people are handled and treated. Some of us are treated much more harshley for something when someone else can do the exact same thing and it not be a big deal. That is a very evident sign of biasedness going on here. Also as Roq mentioned the officers are being pretty big hypocrits to things they have said and not just only in this post. I'm all for letting the past go and moving forward, however people don't allow that to happen and that's not something I can completly control. Also another thing to point out about this entire attendance thing, most of the officers won't be able to raid mythic because of their own rules they have set in place, so I hope they can hold the rules to themselves as they do to others. Quote
Mythosaur Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 Can you elaborate on what officers are being hypocrites on? Quote
Mortelinnor Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 You guys have nothing to worry about. This isn't targeting you. I'm glad you can at least admit these rules are meant simply to get reasons to get rid of 2 people while seeming like you have a semi-valid reason to do so in the eyes of other raiders. Personnally, I felt like last night was not so much about having fun than watching your ass and shutting the fuck up because someone is looking for a reason to get rid of you. Let's just imagine if it had been me that had accidentaly pulled the boss and not Jaylog. I am pretty sure it would've resulted in getting kicked for the night, whereas Jay only got a: it's all good, just rez him and pull. (which is what should be done. I also support the EP minus, as you can't allow things like that to happen over and over again.) But this only shows the biais in the severity with which the rules are enforced towards certain people. Quote
Roqwell Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 Mort, I do understand there is a bias present but as of recently it has never been that extreme and you misunderstand the rules. The rules are set into place in order to keep order and put an end to the select few that are making raid unpleasant and wasting people's times during the night. When Snugg admitted it wasn't targeting Summa or Ansky it's an impersonal statement. Summa and Ansky haven't been problematic raiders and therefore on that factual basis there is no sense in why they should be defensive about the rules since they won't be affected. If the rules do affect you.. then it will be because you are being a problematic raider. Or at least that's the intent of the rules. There is still a bit of aggression towards you and Will but that heat has calmed down immensely since you both came back. If you feel like someone specific is out to get rid of you then share who because as far as I'm aware the only time I've heard an officer explicitly state something along the lines of "I'm waiting for the chance to get rid of you" it was from Bash (and I think jokingly so... maybe not, I can't speak for him). Mastric, Snugg, Ftfk.. I don't believe they have any desire to get rid of you and if they did I highly doubt it would be done through some long process of making rules and waiting to pounce. Imagining that you were the one to facepull the boss.... I expect the response would have been the same with slight differences. The tones may have been harsher towards you than to Jay but at worst maybe someone would raise their voice.. at worst, and I doubt even that would happen. You wouldn't be kicked on one mistake like that and neither would Will. If either of you do get kicked over something as mundane as one facepull then I wouldn't let it slide. There is bias still, but it's getting better and significantly lower than it has been. These rules are not made specifically for anyone, they are made as a general necessity for multiple people ruining the raiding experience for the group. Quote
Mortelinnor Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 You wouldn't be kicked on one mistake like that and neither would Will. I don't know if I missed something, but I'm pretty sure that's what I've understood of these new "action plans". Quote
Roqwell Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 It would only happen if you became a consistent problem. One small mistake, even when under watch, does not and should not equal to a kick. Quote
Mortelinnor Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 Hopefully everyone can understand that, as I'm only looking for a fun place to raid, and would hate to be forced to look elsewhere. I realize I'm annoying at times, but I try to stop when I'm asked to. Quote
Tourettsbear Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 we would hate to be forced to kick you. Stop being disruptive, and annoying, and it will no longer be an issue. Quote
Tourettsbear Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 Guys, I bought a bunch of enchanting material and placed them in the guild bank. If you're using Breath on ILVL 670+ Gear, you're doing it wrong. Please ask one of the officers for an enchant. The cost is a shard, but if you don't have a shard, assist with the guild by providing a bit of gold.. There is NO reason people aren't enchanted correctly at this state in BRF. Chillr, Nerita, Crimsontrail, Lyntha is a perfect example guys. His 670+ gear has gift on it, and his 665- gear has breath. 5.) All members must be prepared with Seals, Flasks and Enchantments prior to start of raid time. We are wasting too much time handing out flasks during raid. Maintain a stack of your own flasks or talk to the officers/Kansir after raid or before raid for flasks when you get low. Failure to have flasks or enchantments will lead to you being removed from the raid team. I mean, It sounds harsh to be removed from the raid team, but come on, we're really not asking you guys for much.. In fact, In most cases, I'm literally GIVING you the materials needed to help ATR succeed. Please, enchant your shit properly. Quote
Lyntha Posted February 17, 2015 Author Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) Guys, I bought a bunch of enchanting material and placed them in the guild bank. If you're using Breath on ILVL 670+ Gear, you're doing it wrong. Please ask one of the officers for an enchant. The cost is a shard, but if you don't have a shard, assist with the guild by providing a bit of gold.. There is NO reason people aren't enchanted correctly at this state in BRF. Chillr, Nerita, Crimsontrail, Lyntha is a perfect example guys. His 670+ gear has gift on it, and his 665- gear has breath. 5.) All members must be prepared with Seals, Flasks and Enchantments prior to start of raid time. We are wasting too much time handing out flasks during raid. Maintain a stack of your own flasks or talk to the officers/Kansir after raid or before raid for flasks when you get low. Failure to have flasks or enchantments will lead to you being removed from the raid team. I mean, It sounds harsh to be removed from the raid team, but come on, we're really not asking you guys for much.. In fact, In most cases, I'm literally GIVING you the materials needed to help ATR succeed. Please, enchant your shit properly. That's also my offspec gear. My shadow gear has all gifts. Anyways, yeah, what he said. Enchant your stuff! Edited February 17, 2015 by Lyntha Quote
Mortelinnor Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 Please ask one of the officers for an enchant. The cost is a shard, but if you don't have a shard, assist with the guild by providing a bit of gold. And here I thought the enchants were given out by the guild (at least on MS gear). How much is "a bit of gold"? Because what's "a bit" for you might seem a lot for other people (maybe their gold went to Gromn). Chillr, Nerita, Crimsontrail I doubt you could remove them from the raid team for said reason without starting a riot. Quote
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