Lyntha

The officers are leaning towards us starting into Heroic BRF right away. I was the person saying "Trust me guys, we need to start on normal highmaul" and nobody believed me but it was very necessary. The average ilvl of our raiders was about 20 below normal highmaul gear and we were too far behind to effectively do Heroic Highmaul. We are now in a position where the average ilvl of our raiders is right around 670 now but will be higher as we put in more farm time over the coming weeks. We are looking at doing a raid where the normal-mode version drops 665 gear. We will be vastly over-geared for normal and it doesn't make much sense for us to start there. We will be overgeared even for heroic, at least for the first half.

that would be mastric Yar, but i can multi pizza task I approve of this fully-baked pun Deal with it

Sure

I dont know what this sorcery is; there's no 21st. month.

My sims didn't take into consideration people saving CD's and pots for the high-favor phase because it's difficult to simulate that scenario with Simcraft. In practice, everyone's burst dps would be much higher. How much DPS do you gain with a pot and your CD's? Add that onto the base amount and multiply by 25% then see the difference. You will probably be doing more like 50% - 75% more during the high-favor lust phase than a start-of-fight lust phase in perfect conditions. In less than perfect conditions like messing up CDs or not having as high a favor, the damage would certainly go down but the gap is big enough to cover any situation. And I really don't think that anybody is arguing that in a perfect scenario, lusting with high favor is MUUUCH better

Im just gonna copy and paste what I said in the shoutbox: We are going to push progression as much as possible but that's not the primary focus of the guild. If our push for progression gets in the way of having fun or having a good raid atmosphere, the raid atmosphere wins. I've been in top US guilds where they are straight up assholes to anyone who messes up. It gets results, but the turnover rates in those guilds are horrendous. That's not what our guild is. If you want to join a raid where progression is more important than treating each other with civility or having fun, go join a different guild because that's not who we are.

Because he DC'd once and said he was good. We trust that he's not intentionally lying to us for one, and people can't predict when they'll be DC'd for two. Really, why is this even being asked? How would YOU feel if we were close to a kill and you DC'd once just to be sat and we got the kill without you? Not all at once. These are people that got sat at one point or another due to excessive failing of mechanics. We have a comfortable bench but it's still only 5 or so people on most nights. If we sit every person who messes up during that fight, we'd be sitting 3 people every fight and nobody would get comfortable, nobody would improve and it would take FOREVER to constantly swap people.

I'm describing a perfect scenario for the start of the fight and a subpar scenario for the high-favor lust and it's still far far towards a high-favor lust. In a more perfect and realistic scenario, the difference would be much higher. I already explained this though. Do you have anything constructive to add or are you just complaining? We are not gods, we can't predict the future. We can't predict that somebody will DC out of nowhere. We had a LOT of DC problems last night and it seemed to be a problem that randomly affected multiple people and wasn't limited to one or even two people. Are you seriously upset at the decision to bring in Will since he ended up DCing? Well definitely and we can tweak the numbers but my numbers for the high-favor lust were way lower than what could be realistically expected and we are still way above start-of-fight dps. It's impossible to fully math out this problem but my numbers give us a ballpark range of numbers so we can have some more concrete data and the data points towards one conclusion.

I agree with Mort 100%. What you are missing though, mort, is that Bash advertised and built a raid team more focused on Progression than a fun raid atmosphere. He wanted to take the guild into a more hardcore direction. Some of those raiders recruited during that period now feel cheated as we go back towards our roots. Other raiders who have been here longer think that we aren't back towards our roots and casual enough and are upset. Both groups have reason to be upset, but only one group is going to be happier in the future for sure, and that's the more casual group. We are up front about what we want to be and we encourage people to leave and raid somewhere else if the environment suits them. Look at what happened with Red for example. Also, I sat 11 unique people at various points during Kargath progression. I specifically sat 6 people for mechanics issues, 4 people for DPS issues and one person for attendance issues. I'm not going to list those people to shame them but people did get sat. Some people ended up coming back in again later or on different days but people got rotated out if they weren't performing. One last important thing: Keep it civil and don't attack people! Otherwise, this discussion is awesome and we want to hear everyone's opinions and feedback so keep it coming.

I don't like having a farm strat and a progression strat. This guild isn't the best at adapting on the fly. Muln I did some math with Simcraft. With your gear, over the first 40 seconds of the fight, you should be doing 41688 dps without lust and 52376 dps with it. Lust will boost your dps by almost exactly 25%, for a static DPS boost of about 10k dps over the duration of lust. 10k dps x 40 seconds = a boost of 400,000 damage Our kargath kill took 6:38 so I did a sim run on your dps over the entire duration of a 6:00 fight without lust and it gave me 27599 dps. That's your average dps over 6 minutes no lust with full raid buffs. We've already established that Lust boosts your dps by about 25%. If we double your average dps from 100 favor, we get 55198 dps. 25% of that is 13,799.5 dps. 13799.5 dps x 40 seconds = a damage boost of 551,980 With perfect opening lust conditions, you can expect a 400k damage boost. With subpar high favor lust conditions (No saving CD's, no popping pot), you can expect a damage boost of 552k. Lusting during 100 favor is clearly better even in non-perfect conditions. In reality, you would line up your CD's and pop pots bringing the damage differential even higher. For other classes with ramp-up time, the difference will be even greater. /math

It's actually the reverse. Kargath is harder on an individual level and Imperator is harder on a group level with regards to figuring out the strats and whatnot. We already know the strat for Imperator and just need a night of good attempts with enough healers to down him. You are right though in having to trim down the raid. We won't trim for DPS reasons though, it will just be for healer reasons. Imperator is a VERY demanding fight on healers. Our best attempts on him had us using about 4 healers for every 15 people, but we'd like to overheal the fight to make it easier. We will most likely be using all 7 healers (Our 6 main healers and me healing) and will be only using about 20 people total. Is it overkill? Perhaps. Probably not, but perhaps. But it will be the quickest and easiest way to down the boss.

As I understand it right now, Progression will be: 1.) Heroic Highmaul 2.) Heroic BRF (Half a Tier higher than Heroic Highmaul) 3.) Mythic Highmaul (Half a tier higher than Heroic BRF) 4.) Mythic BRF (Half a tier higher than Mythic Highmaul) So we will be going back to Highmaul, but it's true that there's not much reason for us to go back to Heroic Highmaul once Heroic BRF comes up.

A few people wanted to lust at the start of the fight on Mythic Kargath instead of when at high favor. Pros of Lusting at start: -Trinket procs will line up -You can do silly pre-pull stuff; some classes benefit more from lust at start of fight -A little bit less movement since you don't have to worry about Berserker Rush -Easier to pull off successfully Pros of Lusting at high favor: -100% damage boost is greater than the boost that trinkets lining up will give you, no matter how good the trinket is -If timed properly, you can still have a pot up for it -If timed properly, you can still have major CD's up for it -Some classes have ramp-up time and don't benefit as much from lust at start of the fight -It's just plain more DPS For what it's worth, every Mythic Kargath guide I've checked says to lust at high favor on this fight. Traditionally, you save lust on bosses if you're gonna have more than 50% damage increase for an extended time during the fight. http://www.icy-veins.com/wow/kargath-bladefist-strategy-guide-normal-heroic-mythic http://www.wowhead.com/guide=2784/kargath-bladefist-highmaul-raid-strategy-guide /discuss

Conqueror of Naxxramas till the end of time.

whut

Lumi, you gonna be back next week?

Thanks for the heads up Manny.

roger

Same. Thanks for the heads up, but it's still optional. Next week we're back to normal.