Rebelogic

I didn't know this, but when you go in for heroic attempts, you get saved despite not downing the boss I think I can come in For Hagara onwards.

I know what would recharge your batteries, a little thing I like to call: 2012 3rd Annual ATR Guild Party! Tentative dates: August 10-12!

The issue yesterday wasn't that the healers were doing badly. We needed more to handle the sudden burst. Our DPS was fine so we decided to bring more in. We looked up different guilds who downed it and realized that everyone 8-heals the fight. All of our core healers are great! I think more than anything, we needed the additional healers for extra CD's than anything else.

Ok, so we got until the 23rd to find a permanent second tank.

Tonight, the Patriots are playing on Monday Night Football. Considering I never take days off from raiding, I figured one time can be excused. As far as raiding during Thanksgiving Week is concerned, I don't really celebrate Thanksgiving except for the eating/drinking/football. So, I will still be around on those raid nights. We will play it by ear and see who is online. Kind of tough to force people to be online during the coming week.

My Metapod is hardening.

Grats guys, good work.

Depending on how late the Q4 Kick-Off Event Lasts for work, I will probably be late to raid tonight. I am thinking around 8:30-9.

I ran with your group yesterday and we did regulars and downed Rag. I can help out next week on Thursday but my first priority will be to find a good ranged who I can be a back-up for.

We understand Deftonia. We did good yesterday and could use you guys tonight. However, that is your call. We don't want to pressure you in case RL stuff becomes serious.

It is understandable man. You have my condolences for your loss. The hurricane also affected a bunch of people. This weekend is our annual guild get-together so the stress on raiding will be a little less. Take this weekend to unwind, recover from a traumatic series of events, and prepare anew for next week. If anything comes up, don't hesitate to post and inform us of your situation. Despite what happens, informing us breeds confidence in you. Good luck and enjoy the weekend.

I think we will be ok with healers Havlat. Foto put Taz in charge of healers in his absence as he has proven that he is good at it. However, if the need for an additional healer arises, we will keep your pally in mind.

I like it, good work.

Yeah, I know it has been a long time coming, but finally I got another post up. I haven't posted in a while, so we have a decent amount to catch up on... First of all, I would like to congratulate everyone in the 25M for putting in the effort to work together as well as we are doing. We have had a lot of different people come in and out of our raids as we have tried to figure out which is the best fit. Currently, we are working with a very solid group and that is mainly thanks to the entire raid's cooperation and patience. That said, we have to go over some details about how we can improve our raids. We have a lot of downtime in our raids due to AFK's all of a sudden. Yesterday, according to WoL's, we had less than 50% active time during the raid. Now, a lot of the AFK's were either due to emergency's or some specific pre-planned things people had to take care of. Now, we cannot prevent emergencies and we can't help things like having to put kids to bed at a specific time. However, the raid itself should not have to wait. Part of the problem yesterday was the officers took too long to replace people who were AFK. Basically, if you have to go afk on trash for less than a minute or two, it is fine. However, if we get to a boss and you are afk for the ready check, we will immediately begin looking for a replacement for you so we can down that boss. Whether you get to come back for future bosses, is upto the raid leaders, depending on the fights, we will do what's best for the raid as a whole. If we are on a farm boss and 1-2 people are afk, we will just 23 man it to save the time of asking and porting someone in. That said, lets take a moment to talk about the break we always take. We want to take the 10 minute break before a farm boss. Yesterday, we took it right before Council in BoT after we killed all of the trash. Despite the fact that we have a 10 minute break, we always end up waiting 15 minutes for that one guy who decided to fit too may things into his break time. Please try and get back by the post-break ready check or we will immediately begin finding a replacement for you so the entire raid doesn't have to wait. Now, let's talk about our progression a bit. We are now 2/13 HM and are moving at a decent pace considering we took a while to solidify our 25M roster. We had an initial hurdle of having some really good players only being able to play on two days, but with our quality additions, we have been able to compensate. At the moment, we have downed H-Halfus and H-Chimaeron, which are both necessary bosses for us to progress further. The next two bosses I want to focus on would be Al'Akir, H-Atremedes, and H-Maloriak, in that order. Now, I know that Al'Akir isn't technically a progression boss, but in a way it is. First of all, we haven't downed it in 25M so it is direct progression for the 25M. In addition, it provides a title which many of our raiders do not have and are clamoring for. Thirdly, it is a different type of boss fight which holds new challenges and frames of reference for us as we continue on to new content. Currently, our plan is to work on Al'Akir basically all of Monday which by then, all other bosses will be down. Heroic Atremedes is the next heroic encounter we would like to focus on for progression. This week, the plan is to work on Heroic Chimaeron and spend up until around 10:30 trying Heroic Atremedes (which will give us 30 minutes for Nef). If attempts go really good, we can stick on Heroic Atremedes the rest of the night leaving Nef and Al'Akir for Monday. Now, let's switch gears for a second and talk about our one-shot farm bosses in BoT. It is safe to say that the last 3 bosses in BoT are basically on farm status right now. As such, we DE most of the gear off those bosses except maybe a shoulder token or two off of Cho'Gall. Next week, I really want to do Heroic Halfus and then immediately get into BWD so we have more time to work on Heroic Atramedes and Heroic Maloriak. Gump made a good point yesterday that we have to begin skipping some of our farm bosses and focus on being a little more aggressive on progresion. Those of you who still need shoulder tokens of Cho'Gall in case we don't get a chance to go back to BoT Next week, can try to form a Thursday/weekend raid to just finish off BoT to get your last few pieces, I can help with that. Firelands is closing in on us and we all have to individually prepare for the new raid now itself. First of all, everyone should be up to date with the latest patch notes. Second, with every new patch/raid there comes several predictable scenarios which we can plan for. First would be crafting patterns. Level all your professions to max please! We need as many people as possible with the ability to learn all the newest crafting patterns as soon as possible. The sooner we get these patterns, the bigger advantage we will have. Also, all the new crafting patterns have mats which are currently available and listed on the latest patch notes. In addition, new raids = new loot, new loot needs enchanting mats, we will need a lot of enchanting mats. These two big areas of planning brings me to my next point: What to do when you are not raiding: I see people all the time just online but simply chilling in Org or playing on their alt a bit. Now, I don't want to discourage people from taking a break from their mains or taking a few minutes to talk to their freinds. All I am trying to say is, use your time wisely in a way that we can all benefit. The first and foremost thing you can do is get as much gold as possible while you are not raiding. This could mean gathering mats to sell, selling valor boots, doing dailies, etc. Whatever you do to make money in the game, please do it. Gold allows us to buy new patterns, recipies, mats, etc. In the past, a new crafting piece has come out and we would always wait for the price to go down in the AH, let's have enough money so that we won't have to anymore. In addition to collecting gold, get a DE'er and do a ZA/ZG run or two so you can get some Maelstrom crystals. I did a run with Wili the other day and we got 15 of them. If not ZA/ZG runs, do some heroics for Chaos orbs which will be needed for crafting items. With our current gear, we can blow through heroics so fast. I know that overall, all this could be annoying for some people, but if we begin chipping away at it little by little well ahead of time, it won't be that bad. Even use your alts if you want to, so you get a change of pace. I know I will be trying to get any new tailoring patterns on my priest in addition to Blacksmithing patterns on my pally. Unholy has been running WoL parses for our raids. Please take a look at them and other materials so you can improve yourselves. If you are constantly looking to improve yourselves, it prevents something which I like to call a "Mental Carry". A "Mental Carry" is when someone who performs poorly on a boss he has downed before simply because it is on farm. That leads to mental mistakes like puling aggro, standing in shit, killing others, etc. A good example of which is 1 person being alive on Heroic Halfus yesterday. Lastly, I would like to end by calling attention to the fact that we downed 7/12 yesterday with a heroic mode sprinkled in there. It was a great effort and I can't wait to see what we can do when we clean up some of our bad habits and go full throttle! I look forward to Geedub's wedding and doing a first ever video Rebel's Logic post on location!

How dare you give us such short notice and vague explanations!

My earlier comments on what went wrong on Maloriak were just small issues we basically fixed throughout the fight. I only called them to attention because they happened, from what I saw, not glaring things at all, we fixed things fast. It wasn't the ranged's fault that Moot died, Thrai is right, 12 adds is annoying on one tank. I was just suggesting that every once in a while, we could get a ring or hunter trap to help moot out a bit. The two person call out on "Stack" "Spread" on Chimaeron is a good idea since during that fight, there is nothing else really to call out until phase 3, except for the occasional B-Rez and healer CD. As far as vent chatter goes, it is always easier to increase vent chatter than to reduce it. I tried to set a standard of, let's be as quiet as possible and tackle everything as if it is progression. Now that I know where we stand, we can be a little more talkative in vent between fights. You have all proven you can focus, just don't lose that. For Atremedes, I wouldn't mind doing it the way that we did it yesterday from now on. It is basically the way that both group 2 and group 3 does it. However, group 3 has gone a couple weeks before where we had a ranged hit gongs (Zeroshiki), and he got really good at it. It is worth a shot to try it a new way just to minimize movement. However, this is one of those symantics issues where we can take the Tank, Healer, Ranged, and melee leads for the day and vote on which strat they prefer. I wouldn't mind either strat, tbh. A combo-strat with what Tankspot did as you suggested, would also be fine. For Magmaw, I think lag fucked up the jumpers a little bit. It was the three DK's who were assigned to do it (Nemesis, Ghostwind, Havlat). They got it right most of the time, though you are right, coordination was off a little a few times. In 10M, Our group just spam-clicks the boss and throws the chain as soon as they can. 90% of the time, they hit within a second of each other. Adding one more jumper/chain to the equation shouldn't affect things too much in terms of timing on a non-patch day. Maybe the three jumpers could call out something to the affect of "Nem Chain up" so people know if one of them missed the jump or something. Considering that besides "pillar" and "Mangle", there isn't too much being called out on that fight, I wouldn't mind 3 melee confirming that their chains are out. Btw, thanks for pointing that out Moot, I had forgotten to mention the Magmaw chains. I was well aware that it wasn't your fault you died there, lol. Lastly, The Lyshani pulling on Chimaeron thing, is now confirmed to be Thrai's fault, it has been admitted. He basically jinxed us all with his mind. Thanks for all your suggestions/comments guys, keep em coming.

First of all, I can't take all the credit for yesterday. I mean, Glitter was in the raid; he brought us good luck in our efforts with his trademark yelling in vent he always does. No, in all seriousness, GREAT JOB EVERYONE! The most important thing about yesterday night is that people showed up with a positive attitude about the raid. I didn't feel that anyone was bummed out about doing 25M rather than 10M, and if you did feel that way, you didn't show it, which I appreciate. So, let's recap the awesome night of epic-ness that was our first foray into 25M (Not counting BH or Realm first Lvl 25 efforts) since Wrath. First, the lousy crap we couldn't control: Patch day, fucking patch day. People took a while to download and properly load the patch, but that was only the beginning of being able to actually raid. There was server and dungeon lag everywhere. A bunch of us got the "No instance found" error message when we loaded into BWD. Most of our add-ons didn't work or were consistently dc'ing us. Then there were the DC's from the frame-rate problem and other reasons (Blizzard said this morning that they are fixing that issue through re-starts and hot-fixes). Lastly, even though we went 5/6 yesterday, i felt like we downed 4 extra bosses (Loading screen boss, vent lag boss, release boss, and "Awe crap, I got ported to Org" boss). Despite all that though, I think my favorite uncontrollable error we had was on Omnitron, when the next robot refused to come out and Arcanotron decided to take a stone nap. For personal blunders last night, there were a bunch but a lot of them shouldn't be difficult to fix. One problem we have is talking over each other. I am a huge culprit of this because like Wili, Greatbad, Moot, Nemesis, and all other people who are used to calling out everything, I had trouble holding myself back from doing so. On any given boss fight, we should have maybe 4 people max calling out different mechanics. Above them, we can have the raid leaders call out any major changes to the fight in order to recover a tank loss or battle-rez. For specific encounter blunders here are a few things that I noticed: Lyshani accidentally pulled Chimaeron. Now, we can sit here and yell at him, but considering that we only had 1 accidental pull which resulted in a raid wipe, I consider that a success for our first 25M in forever. On Maloriak, we spent the beginning of the fight with the boss facing the cauldron rather than us on red phase. We also had too many interrupts during the first cauldron cycle which resulted in only 6 adds at first. This was probably due to a melee who is used to doing the interrupts accidentally grabbing one. We also had Moot die while kiting which the range can do a little better job with helping him out with slows. On Omnitron, I noticed that when adds came out from Toxitron, the melee didn't move out fast enough before we were sure who they were targeting. Besides that, there were a few other minor errors, but if we just remember them, we can easily point them out next time and fix them. Please comment below anything else you noticed we can fix on specific fights. What we did really well: We can't focus only on the negative, so I just want to call to attention the little efforts that people put in to make the raid go as well as it did. First, people logged on as soon as they could for yesterdays raid. I know that most of us had work and got on just before raid to find out that everything didn't work. However, you guys made the effort to fix things fast and inform the raid leaders of any problems you were having getting online, well ahead of time. In terms of pre-raid vent banter, people helped me out in vent by mostly talking about raid issues before we began rather than random things. That carried into the raid itself, despite us raid leaders talking over each other a lot, we didn't have excessive random banter, which I really appreciate. This is the difference from Newma making you smile and annoying you, you did well Newma. Adds in general died fast all over the place. We seemed to be good at switching to them and destroying them. Magmaw, Omnitron, and Maloriak adds died quickly. As far as interrupts are concerned, I almost think we did that too well (6 adds first cauldron phase on Maloriak). Only caviat to that last statement would be Omnitron where people didn't call out some of the interrupts they were getting until someone asked me if they could (my bad). As far as raid leading, the people who marked, tank led, healer led, range led, and melee led all did a good job managing their squads. People were attentive to their leaders and gave some very god suggestions as to how they could help the raid as a whole. There was a lot of other things people did really well on the fights, but I just want to focus on one aspect that permeated the entire raid. People kept an open mind to playing multiple roles, boss strats, loot council (which I think worked out pretty well), and the overall aspect of doing 25M. I can't thank you guys enough for helping me out in being positive. Strat improvements for next time: For Magmaw, we were almost too efficient killing the adds. I don't mind if we take a person or two off of them to just stay on the boss, we can switch up who does that every raid. For Omnitron, as best as we can, we must get the golems to be on the opposite side of the room. They stop to cast and this process will take the tanks a bit, but it will help the healers if we DPS move around accordingly to acomodate add movement. Maloriak, I think we did fine on, just minor fixes. On Chimaeron, as long as we stick to the strategy of putting a healer in charge of a specif group and all others be wary of the spacing, we will be fine on that boss. For Atremedes, we are going to try a new strat next time. I want him in the middle at all times while he is down. There will be a melee group on one side and a ranged group on the other all stacked. If someone gets breath, they kite it right, everyone else will go left. A range can be designated for gongs. What this will do is give us a larger range of motion, prevent people from getting stuck on the sides, and limit the amount of sound we get because we will only get an average of 2 discs per side. Less movement = less sound = more win. I know we one-shot Atremedes, but we can still improve. So, it seems that 25M is being embraced by more people, but in order for it to succeed, I need some things form people. First, we need to get an assessment of who can make what raid days. Please be available on non-raid times for me to ask you. From that information, we can determine our 25M schedule next week. I specifically only wanted to do 1 25M day this week so we can take a good chunk of time getting the raid properly ready to progress. So, in closing, I thank you all for putting in the effort and positive attitude to make the raid go as well as it did. Please leave as much feedback as you can on this thread. We can only improve if we discuss how.

I thought all the points that were made in the other two forums were very nicely written and well thought out. However, going forward, it would be best if we let that forum live under the Dungeons & Raids section within this thread. To begin, I would like to thank everyone who came to me with questions and concerns about the 25M. We cannot progress unless everyone is on the same page with their focus and ideas. So, to get the ball rolling on this forum, I wanted to touch upon something that has been bothering the ten man teams and myself. Progression: Currently, groups 2 & 3 have been plagued with attendance issues which has halted progression somewhat. We will get in a couple good days and when it comes to a progression boss, we will be missing someone or something. In group 3's case, it always seems to be a geared 3rd healer who we trust, then betrays us, but I digress. Then the inevitable happens, Sunday and Monday roll around and we are forced to combine groups into one 10M which leave a bunch of fully capable raiders losing out on progression bosses. For example, I get asked to go into group 2's run on Monday's to try to help them kill Nef. I go into the run with mixed emotions. I don't intend to get any loot off those bosses, it should go to people who need it more than me. I just go because helping them out gives others a chance at experience and loot. Now, to be perfectly honest, I like running with group 2, but a combination of the two groups ultimately puts consistent raiders out in the dust and that is totally not fair. Someone put it to me like this, "the ten man is so close to progression, but with the 25M, it almost feels like it is being yanked from us." Now, this is a completely legitimate fear, but my hope is that the 25M will ultimately help progression rather than hurt it. Let me paint a picture for you, Say group 3 needs a 3rd healer. Getting a new person for the group and gearing them up in the alt run takes a while considering we don't kill that many bosses in the alt run. If we bring them in the 10M group to gear em out, it will probably slow our raid in getting to our progression boss to which the new healer is probably not geared for anyway. However, if we focus on a 25M for the first day of the raid week, we are now gearing 25 people equally. If we split into ten mans as the week continues, each group now has 5 extra geared/experienced people to help fill their ranks, so people don't have to go from group to group. Group 2 and 3 will be able to continue their progression. Now, people might ask about the people who would be undoubtedly asked to sit for the 10M later in the week, we can't break up 25 people into 2 ten mans. Think of it this way, if we didn't do the 25M at all, those people wouldn't have a chance to raid with us at all. If this ultimately gives us a chance to progress like crazy in the 25M and we can afford to have a consistent group 3 days a week, all the better for us all. The goal is to BENEFIT the guild by making it easier to gear/progress with more people. I don't want to feel like I am letting my group down again. Now with that said, I just want to quickly summarize a few points that were made on the other two 25M forums. Boredman brought up his fear of starting 25M in the middle of content rather than waiting till 4.2. It is my view that since we all have experience/gear with the current content, it would be better to do it now than starting with fresh content. We will more or less be gearing 7-10 people in our 25M rather than 25 people since most of us just need a few pieces in current normal content. As far as halting progression within the 10M's, as I mentioned above, our biggest Achilles heal in the 2 groups has been having enough people, hopefully the 25M will help us out. Interrupts: In 25M, we will be in need of more interrupters. This speaks to more of a learn your class as best as you can point. If there is anything that you can do to better stay alive, do more DPS, heal better, help on a mechanic, please do so. Learn not only what you can do individually, but how you can help the raid as a whole. Leadership: Before every raid, I will assign several jobs to different people within the raid. This will do two things, 1) Help the raid run more smoothly and 2) Empower some new leaders to step up. These duties will include Range/Melee/Healing/tanking leaders. These people will coordinate and lead discussions within the raid amongst their respective groups to better improve/coordinate the efforts. The leaders should assign who interrupts what, who tanks what, who heals what, etc. This way, if there is a wipe, if I ask what happened with the healing, I don't get crickets in vent. Also on the leadership concept will be specific people assigned to call out mechanics. This should never be more than 3 people maximum, otherwise people will get confused. Now this is a point to myself, Wili, and all those who have a habit of talking and calling out too everything on vent: We have to stop that in the 25M setting. Lastly, for trash, I want there to be a marking leader who will mark targets and assign CC's. Loot Council: The officers in the raid have downloaded a Loot council add on, which will be the basis for our loot system for now. When a piece is dropped, it is linked in raid. People whisper the Loot Master what they have for the specific slot that piece goes to, basically what they will replace if they get it. You type "MAIN" or "OFF" depending on whether you want it for Main spec or offspec. The add on lets the loot council give a quick vote for who they want (They cannot vote for themselves) and the piece is automatically looted to the player who wins. Loot council will weigh how much much of an upgrade it is, your attendance, whether you have gotten a piece recently, etc. Recruiting: Recruiting for the 10M teams has always been tough to do. Solid players always feel like they have less of a chance to get into a 10M. If you are the 11th guy in a 10M team, you probably won't have as easy a time getting into a run than if you are the 26th person in a 25M team. Recruiting for 25M will give us a better chance at getting quality people. If this effect trickles down into the ten man teams, then all the better. Scheduled Breaks: Cutting down on afk's in 25M is always a HUGE issue. So to lessen down time, we will have scheduled breaks throughout the raid. Besides the breaks however, here are a few things you can do individually to cut down on overall wasted time. Buy everything you need for raid, the night before (flasks, potions, food, feasts, cauldrons, etc.). Repair before the raid and expect specific times during the raid to be set aside for repairing. When a boss dies, don't wait around next to the loot master, continue pulling trash. Before the raid begins, GET YOUR ASS TO THE RAID! Fuck mass summon, be there ahead of time. 30 minutes before the raid begins, do a small mental checklist for yourself. This could mean going over what spec/abilities you think will maximize your class on specific boss fights, it could be asking people what loot they will be rolling on, working together with your fellow DPS to figure out a better strat to down an add, something. All I ask is that we take a solid 30 minutes to discuss the raid itself. We have all the other time we are online to discuss random shit that happened during the day. Also, after the raid, I would like to have a 5-10 minute session for people to re-cap things they have learned throughout the raid. We have never done this before and I want to make it a new tradition so we can try to cut down on recurring mistakes. Working together: As I said before, this is not an individual effort we are undertaking, we have to work as a team with a positive mindset. Nothing is on farm in 25M! Talk amongst your specific class members to discuss what best you can do to improve boss kills. If someone is doing better than you, don't hate them, ask how you can improve! Sitting people: Wrath content was easier than Cataclysm. As such, we need to step up performance or we will never succeed. This means that the time for carrying people is over. Now, this doesn't mean that I ma going to be a crazy dictator, it simply means that if the officers collectively think you are having a bad day, you will be sat for someone waiting on the sidelines to prove themselves. Now, if you get sat, your first reaction shouldn't be resentment towards us for sitting you, it should be a renewed attitude to improve yourself. Keep in mind however, somethings are just out of your control. For example, if you are DC'ing a lot, an emergency happens, etc. You should take it upon yourself to ask to be sat to better help the raid. Now, as far as mechanics are concerned, sometimes we just need more of a certain class to down a boss. This could mean sitting the lowest DPS for an extra healer on Chimaeron, etc. Don't take anything personally, it is all about the benefit of the group. Now, that said, if you don't need any gear off a boss and you want to sit for someone else so they can get something, by all means offer. Above all though, if you are having a bad day, we want to be in a position to actually make the tough decisions rather than just be nice. So, as usual, I made a long ass post. If I missed anything that was said before, please add it. Remember, this forum is to discuss any specific issues & suggestions people have with the raids. If you are going to comment on a strat or an individual, please be as objective as possible. I don't want to hear a post saying, "Man that Rebel is just bad." I would rather see a post saying, "Rebel, it would help if you salved yourself more often so that you don't pull aggro as much." I want to make this forum get as much constructive traffic as possible, please contribute!

I really appreciate everyone's response to this thread. Tuesday is probably patch day so I will be hoping for the best when it comes to actual raid time. In recent patches however, with smaller content releases per patch, giant server lag and/or late maintenance hasn't happened, so I am hopeful. Keep the suggestions coming. As much as possible, even when we start the actual 25M, I will try to keep up to date with an official 25M thread on the forums. It is here that we can actively discuss things that are going on and how we can constantly improve, etc. It should be open and Un-PC. However, I do ask that you be objective and positive when you post (people have been good about that so far). Say things like, "I noticed the mages don't use ________, this post from EJ _______ mentioned it is a good idea, maybe it could help on this boss ________, etc. A post like that is much more effective than, "Man, that Wili keeps trying to hide from a blind dragon." Haha, I think we beat that joke to death.

As I mentioned in the concerns section of my original post, a big fear of mine is the progression halting. However, trying it out for a day should be a good chance for us to get some farm bosses out of the way so that the 10M groups can come together on later fights. The idea is an experiment at first and if it works, it will work very well. The key is to have an open forum with people. Currently, we don't have the capacity to say, "Hey, you are messing up, we are going to sit you.", eventually however, we will develop that ability. It is true that some of the members of group 2 and 3 have been coasting a little, but in a 25M format, we have to set a new standard otherwise it just won't work. It is all about giving it a shot and seeing how things go. I kind of feel weird writing this as a response to Boredman's post considering he was more excited than anyone else when I mentioned the possibility of doing 25M. As it stands, we do have some new people we will be forced to go through, but as we have proven with the Server First Realm 25, we have the group mentality to get tasks like this done. Now we just have to focus on getting people to live up to their expectation.

I would really prefer the idea of doing a loot council. In the past, the only drawback of this system has been the time it takes to make the decisions. Imo, it should be done quick so we can move on to the next boss. I am leaning towards a group of 3-4 people per run who do the council. From what Thrai said, it would be nice to keep it just between officers. However, the loot that everyone gets should be pubilcly displayed in some form on the site so everyone knows who has gotten what on whichever day. This will keep people more honest and ultimately help the loot council make decisions faster. Also, to Berms's point, do not wait for loot to be distributed, keep pulling trash so we can get to the next boss faster. This speaks to the point I made earlier about delegating people to mark/pull and do other duties.

I hope to address as many points as possible within this thread, so forgive the length of this first post

I feel really good that all the expectations surrounding this event were exceeded. Every guild who was going for this achievement underestimated the planning that took place. We basically outsmarted everyone, not as a raid group, but as an entire guild. Most people on the server thought that their overwhelming numbers would overcome our efforts. They tried in vain to get themselves together for guild raids of Wrath and BC content but never mobilized in any semblance of the force that is ATR. With barely a week's notice, we told everyone to do 25 dailies for turn ins on Monday morning and enough obliged to allow me to push us into lvl 23 as early as 9:30AM! From then on, it was Yacoub, Unholy, and Boredman, et all, stepping up to grind heroics/raids with anyone who was on until the majority of us got off work and join in. Now, keep in mind this was Monday, we did not plan on having the sheer number of willing participants that we had that night. Wili, graciously enough cut short his 10M run to only Cho'Gall which despite wiping for an entire raid day last week, managed to one-shot; a feat I can only attribute to our focus and the knowledge that the kill would further push us in guild experience. Group 1 even did a conclave and were bold enough to bring 3 new people to Al'Akir (including myself). They figured, it is worth a shot, the one-shot a few moments later, made it clear that the focus was not just an individual group thing, it was an entire ATR thing! Many individual moments adding up to a climactic finale occurred during the last few days. The thanks go out to all the front-runners, the raid leaders, and ultimately all guildies who joined groups and kicked ass in the name of the guild! For those of you who are exalted with the guild, ride your scorpion while hoisting our colors with pride, because for a few days, we are the ONLY ones who can enjoy that privilege! Grats to all!

I am totally down Prydain. We will have some stiff competition from leveling guilds, but we should be able to give them a really good fight. I will get 25 dailies done on all three characters of mine.

My favorite Atremedes bug was one time, after he had landed from airphase, he started tracking Geedub as he ran to pick him up. So basically, he came down normally and when Geedub tried to pick him up, he turned and tracked him in the face.